How People Create: Ryan Young from Off With Their Heads
How People Create: Ryan Young from Off With Their Heads
Or, learning how my favorite band's founder/lead singer/songwriter does what he does.
After gaining insight into my writing process by interviewing a photographer1, I thought I’d see what might be learned from talking to a musician. After all, reading a story and connecting to it is one thing, but listening to music is such a visceral experience. I wanted to talk to someone who dealt in that world of raw emotion.
Thus, I figured, who better to ask than someone whose music feels like it has been ripped from someone’s ribcage like a still-beating bloody heart.
Here is Ryan Young from Off With Their Heads, a band whose music has significantly influenced me over the years and whose song I put in the end-credits of my last movie Shook on Shudder, answering questions about how he makes the magic happen.
Enjoy.
Do you ever sit down and decide “I’m going to write a song” without having some kind of inspiration first? Or do you only write after an idea has come to you?
This is tough because it's going to be a lot of "sometimes, I guess". For the most part, there are 2 ways. I usually come up with some kind of riff or melody in my head first. It's generally not associated with any particular thought right out of the gate. However, I've built around an emotion or an idea or feeling as well.
I'm personally of the opinion that you should allow yourself to be inspired by any and everything.
Be a sponge that soaks up your life experience. Just hope you can get it out somehow or else you'll be one of those raggedy sponges nobody wants to touch anymore.
As far as inspiration goes, what kinds of things tend to trigger something in you / make you want to write something new - events, emotions, people, observations…
All of those. Anything that strikes that chord. It can be different for everyone. I used to have such a hard time writing about anything but feeling hopeless or bad all the time. Through years of life experience, heartbreak, horrible behavior, substance abuse, therapy and my personal form of recovery, I've learned that the canvas which we can create on is essentially limitless. Only when you limit yourself is when you risk being a complete hack. Failure in art is MANDATORY. That's how you grow. Nobody likes that feeling, but it's essential to experience the range of emotions that come with it!
Do you ever have any type of schedule for when you write - like, do you block off certain times of day or times of year, for example?
Nah. Not really. I remember reading that Nick Cave has an office with a piano in it. He would go there and work 8 hours a day / 5 days a week. I've always thought that was super funny. I wish I had the time and focus to do that. However, I try and balance my creativity with my ability to make money and live somewhat comfortably. I've combined those two things to a degree, but I don't want to rely solely on creative endeavours for my livelihood. I did that before and I feel like my output suffered. I chickened out on a lot of wild ideas just because I was afraid it would bomb. Now I don't care about bombing. But to get back to the question, I'm always on call for creative ideas. My voice memo app in my phone is filled with insane shit. I don't even remember what half of it was supposed to mean.
Regardless of schedule, is there a particular time where you feel you do your best work? Morning, night, wee hours…
I think the greatest time for creativity is the few seconds before you actually fall asleep. Something happens in your mind where you are disconnected from that form of grounding that your brain gives you. I know a lot of people that experience this. You just have to make sure that you write it down and don't forget, because you will not remember the details. One crazy thing I used to do when I didn't have a pen or a phone: I would scratch, cut or burn myself. The idea was that I would wake up with some sort of flesh wound and it was supposed to remind me of that idea. I don't really do that anymore, but I'm certainly not above it. I'm committed to the game!
Are there any environments you prefer to write in? Studio? Bedroom? Outside? Long car ride?
I write 95% of all my lyrics in the studio an hour before we record. You can kinda tell on a lot of the older stuff. It was never really meant to be that way, but I would get in my head too much and nothing would come out. I always know what the song's subject matter will be, but it's just a loose idea. I've been trying to not do that for years, but there is something about the pressure and urgency involved in chiseling the lyrics in stone last minute that seems to work for me.
Forgive this question from a non-musician: How do you usually start? Do you write the music first? Lyrics? Both together? Different every time?
It's different every time. Usually, I'll start with a hook of some sort. Like, one line that I think is clever or something that I can build around. A foundation. But I almost always write the music along with a melody. If you have a good melody, you have a million options to turn to.
Do you ever write with someone else?
I used to write a lot with our first drummer Justin. He and I would toss each other ideas all the time. I would occasionally take ideas from other members, but not tons. This past couple years, I've been trying to include Kyle in on creating the songs. We play together really well and have fun. I would say the only down side to us working together is that we try EVERYTHING. It takes so long to finish anything. Not a complaint, but just a little commentary on when you work well with someone, you eventually have to cap it off and call it good!
How long does the songwriting process usually take? Are there stages that a song goes through - rough idea to final piece?
Some songs take years to finish. Some songs are written in the studio because you had an idea the night before. No rhyme or reason to it, which plays into the "allow that inspiration to take hold from all angles" school of thought.
Do you workshop your songs as you write them? Invite feedback/ideas from others? Or play for others to just feel the vibe?
Nah. I'm pretty secretive about stuff until it's done. The general rule is that if I like it, that's all that matters. I don't like input from anyone that isn't in that room grinding it out.
Do you have any personal rituals connected to writing? Coffee, listening to other music, going for a run, etc.
Nothing specific. My only ritual is to sit and play guitar for a half hour a day uninterrupted. Whether it''s just playing other people's songs, scales or hammering out my own stuff. It's important to just play. This is a fairly new practice for me though. It seems to jar stuff loose though, so that's good.
Is it possible to describe the writing/editing process as far as how much is instinctual, just feeling if something is right or wrong, vs intellectual, knowing it would be better if you made an adjustment that you know worked for you before, for example.
You're talking about following the vibe! Almost everything we do is instinctual in some way. The fun part about that is when you combine instinct and fight against it all in the same song. That's when we get our best stuff. You will notice on a lot of songs there are either no choruses or the chorus only happens once. It's instinctual to follow a typical verse chorus verse chorus type structure. That's when it's fun to fight against that and see where it lands. I've also learned that those formulas exist for a reason. They are good. But good can also come from being weird.
How long do your writing sessions tend to be? Do you go until you run out of steam? Or do you keep things short?
Very short bursts. I'll come up with a slight idea and then bring it into a practice with Kyle. We vibe it out and see where it goes. I never beat anything into the ground. Letting ideas breathe a bit helps keep the edge.
Can you pick one of your songs and walk through the process of writing it from the beginning idea to the finished piece?
I remember the song "No Love" off the Be Good record took forever. We recorded multiple versions of it. It started off as two different songs that we wound up combining into one. It just never felt right until the last second. I knew I wanted it to be a relationship based song, but didn't know which until right before. It wound up being about trying to figure out a way to have something with my mother. It wound up being a funeral of that idea. There was no love involved in creating that. I know that's not really what you asked, but that's about as close as I can get to answering that.
How has your creative process changed over the years? Or has it?
Constantly. You can come up with and finish an idea in minutes. It can take years. You HAVE to be open to that being ok. I'm finally getting that in my old age.
Is there anything you know about yourself that can trip you up when you write? Like, overanalyzing, lack of confidence, distractibility? (these are mine)
All of those are all things everyone who creates struggles with. However, this just has to circle back to "create things for yourself and you cannot fail". Don't get me wrong. I'm grateful that people appreciate what I do. I was never destined to be some sort of huge influential musician. But I do what I do my own way and every single thing I put out into the world makes sense and means something to me on some level. Even if it's just me trolling. I don't let the outside world dictate how I feel about myself. I used to, and it was miserable. Being so connected to everyone's immediate thoughts is not a good thing to me.
Any additional thoughts to share on your process?
Nothing specific. It's good to see the younger generations of music and filmmakers getting nice and weird. I don't really believe in being jealous of other's success. I'm super inspired by it. As far as I'm concerned, I've already won this game. I got to do so many things all across the world by organizing the chaos in my brain. I'm grateful that people connect with that in some way and I can offer a small reprieve from the struggles of the day. That's some true baller shit.
Ryan Young is the lead singer and guitarist of Off With Their Heads. The band has released 7 studio albums since 2008 as well as numerous EPs, singles and live recordings. Ryan also puts out the podcast Anxious and Angry and runs an online retail store by the same name.
see previous post How People Create: Lou Noble
Burn or cut yourself to remember ideas you had just before falling asleep? Hmm. The Neosporin ads just write themselves....